TRANSCRIPT

                          May 19, 2025

                          NEWS PROGRAM

                                

 KEVIN HASSETT, DIRECTOR, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL

                                

                                

                                

      FBN, MORNINGS WITH MARIA INTERVIEW WITH KEVIN HASSETT,
           DIRECTOR, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL

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     FBN, MORNINGS WITH MARIA INTERVIEW WITH KEVIN HASSETT,
     DIRECTOR, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL

     MAY 19, 2025

     SPEAKERS:
     KEVIN HASSETT, DIRECTOR, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL

     MARIA BARTIROMO, FBN ANCHOR

MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK ANCHOR: Joining me now is the White House National Economic Council Director Kevin Hassett. Kevin, good to see you. Thank you so much for being here. What do you want to say about this bill, given the fact that we've had all of this back and forth, Friday, we saw the failure, and then they came back over the weekend and allowed this to advance, but they still are looking for more cuts in spending? Your thoughts.

KEVIN HASSETT, DIRECTOR, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: Well, it's a -- first, it's a massive victory to get it out of the Budget Committee, into the Rules Committee. There is really one more step after that, to get it to the floor and to get the big, beautiful bill to the Senate. I think we're highly, highly optimistic. 100 percent, we're going to get that bill to the Senate. 100 percent we're going to pass this bill by the middle of the summer.

And the reason is, the bill is so well crafted. First, it's got the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, which is the stuff that we passed in 2017 and it all works exactly the way we said. We got the three percent growth. We got the $6,500 in wage growth and so on. And now we're adding new things like the no tax on overtime, no tax on Social Security. They're going to make it even better, even faster growing and so on. And so, the new CEA study shows that this is a homerun of a bill for the American people, and that's really what I think the big news over the weekend is that we got that through. What I think is probably the final tough hurdle in the House, which is the House Budget Committee, which is the toughest place to get it through.

BARTIROMO: And of course, in the middle of all of this, Moody's downgrades the credit rating on the U.S. talking about higher deficits. What do you want to say about the X-date when the government runs out of money, and about some in the GOP House who are complaining about raising the debt ceiling by $5 trillion in this bill?

HASSETT: I think that the debt ceiling is going to go up with the big, beautiful bill. It always goes up. It's going to go up. And so, people should just be done with it and raise the debt ceiling to reduce that risk.

But, make no mistake, the U.S. debt is the safest debt -- the safest bet on Earth. There is no country that I'd rather have than the United States. And so, Moody's can do what it wants to. As Secretary Bessent said, it's a backward-looking thing, penalizing us for all the reckless spending of the Biden administration. But, we're cutting spending. We're deregulating. We've got supply side growth, as we've got every reason in the world to believe that we're going to have the best economy on Earth. If you have the best economy on Earth, you're going to have the best debt on Earth too. And that's the way I would rate it. The House rating agency would give it a "Aaa" right now.

BARTIROMO: Very, very good analysis. We're also waiting on the potential for more deals. I mean, you yourself told me that it's likely we're going to see more trade deals. Treasury Secretary Bessent is warning that tariff rates will return to reciprocal levels if countries do not reach trade deals with the U.S. Watch this, over the weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT BESSENT, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: We have a 90-day pause. There are 18 important trading partners, probably another 20 strong relationships. President Trump has put them on notice that if you do not negotiate in good faith, that you will ratchet back up to your April 2nd.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: So, 150 countries have been put on notice. How many deals do you think you're going to be able to announce and how quickly?

BESSENT: Well, again, it will depend on whether they're negotiating in good faith. But, what we are focused on right now are the 18 important trading relationships.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BARTIROMO: So, what is the reality of it, Kevin? I mean, Bessent also said that the U.S. may impose some tariffs by region rather than on individual countries, as time is running out to negotiate a laundry list of global deals.

HASSETT: Well, there are a number of deals that are on the table and very close to the finish line. Again, I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see some more this week and next, and those deals give us a template for every other deal. And so, it should be pretty easy for a country to say, OK, well, that thing you did with the UK, we're going to do something like that, and then that will probably get them a deal very similar to what we get with the UK.

But, Secretary Bessent is right. The President is adamant that you've got 90 days to do this. Let's not dilly-dally. Let's not spend the next three years having trade negotiations that create lots of market uncertainty. Let's resolve this thing once and for all. Let's get stuff on the table that we can sign, or let's go back to the reciprocal rates and have those rates be the rates that govern us for all of time, perhaps.

BARTIROMO: Well, it seems, though, China, though, is playing both sides of the coin. I mean, on the one hand, it says, OK, good. We'll take our tariffs down during this 90-day period. And then says, well, a 90-day period is not enough to negotiate a trade deal. And no, we're not going to resume exports of rare earth minerals to the United States.

HASSETT: We'll keep a close eye on the status of the things the Chinese have agreed to. We're very pleased with what they've agreed to, and now we're going to monitor carefully to make sure that they're upholding their end of the bargain.

BARTIROMO: Kevin, it seems like we were so dominated by the tariff conversation, but now, as we get closer to these deadlines that -- and by the way, they are self-imposed deadlines, right, getting the bill across the finish line in the House and then getting it to the Senate by, you said, the middle of the summer, whether that means the end of July or July 4th, that's really the priority right now, isn't it?

HASSETT: Yeah, absolutely. We've got to finish the trade deals and finish the tax deals, and then we're going to have a million other things to do if we get after the summer break. But, if we are able to accomplish that, and I'm highly, highly confident that we will, then think about the historic first six months or so of this presidency that we've accomplished the biggest tax bill ever, completely rebooting the international trading system, massive deregulation, and maybe $10 trillion in new investment promises from foreign governments and foreign firms. It's really, really quite a run.

BARTIROMO: It is an incredible run, and the team is doing so much at once. President Trump is handling so much, and you and your entire team is as well. So, I give you kudos for that.

But, Kevin, one of the reasons that we're even talking about getting these tax extensions done by the middle of the summer, as opposed to the end of the year, because in 2017, obviously, Congress passed the --

HASSETT: Right.

BARTIROMO: -- tax bill in December. One of the reasons we're talking about it in the middle of the year is because the government is going to run out of money. So, when is the X-date? Is it August or is it sooner than that?

HASSETT: Secretary Treasury Bessent, he follows that every day, and I have to get the latest number from him. So, I'm sorry. I can't update the latest thing that he said.

BARTIROMO: OK, because the $5 trillion rise in the debt ceiling has to happen, right? I mean --

HASSETT: Sure. It absolutely does.

BARTIROMO: -- and the President said it has to be in this bill.

HASSETT: Correct, and that's a non-negotiable for us.

BARTIROMO: Kevin, how would you assess the economy right now? You've got all this noise from the ratings agencies. Obviously, Moody's downgrading, getting in line with S&P and Fitch because of debt. When does that become an issue that cuts into growth?

HASSETT: Well, look at it this way. We've had big positive surprises with the jobs numbers. If you look at core GDP, it was about three percent. There was that weird thing where they probably didn't adjust the imports correctly. We've got inflation going back to the Fed's target, and we had something like $20 billion in tariff revenue. So, everything that the President said would happen has been happening. We've got not runaway inflation. We've got lots of tariff revenue, which, by the way, should affect the credit rating in the end, if you've got all those extra tax revenue coming in, and we've got strong jobs growth. And finally, the jobs growth was native-born Americans. Everybody said they wouldn't come back to work, but they're coming back in droves.

So, I think that the economy is working just the way President Trump promised it would on the campaign trail, and I think it's going to continue to take off once those policies are actually in place, once we actually have the tax cuts passed and so on.

BARTIROMO: And of course, the CEA is estimating growth here, and I think you know we were talking earlier about the impact of growth. Liz Peek made the point earlier in the 06:00 a.m. hour that one thing that Congress and these people who are saying, present and no on Friday, are not recognizing, is the growth that comes from the tax cut extensions and the deregulation part of the agenda. What kind of growth is that? What -- how would you assess that expectation?

HASSETT: Yeah, put it this way, Maria. Right now, the CBO is projecting that we're going to have anemic growth despite all these big policy wins, only about 1.8 percent in the long run. If you go to three percent growth, which I think is a low ball estimate, given all the productivity we're getting out of artificial intelligence and then the boon from dereg and tax cuts, if we get the three percent growth, then revenue goes up by about $4 trillion. That's the cost of the tax bill that they're talking about right now, three percent growth, and you're home-free. You're home-free.

BARTIROMO: Yeah, and that's the point that I wanted to make, because I'm looking at your report from the CEA estimating what this bill would do in terms of job creation as well as wages and overall economic growth.

HASSETT: That's right.

BARTIROMO: Yeah.

HASSETT: This is just fantastic.

BARTIROMO: So, Kevin, let me -- let me get your take on the second half of the year, because there is still a lot of uncertainty on the part of Corporate America. So, what do you want to say to companies there who say, OK, so we're in this 90-day pause, but that 90-day pause will end? And you just heard Scott Bessent say, yeah, we're going to return to the reciprocal tariff numbers if we can't get a deal done. That, again, in and of itself, represents this uncertainty, and has --

HASSETT: Right.

BARTIROMO: -- companies saying, I'm not going to commit to R&D spending. I'm not going to commit to capital spending right now until I have the clarity that I need on that.

HASSETT: Right. Well, what's going to happen is there are going to be a lot of trade deals, and there is going to be clear clarity on the tax cuts, and then firms are going to lift off. But, think about it, even before that happened, we're getting really strong jobs numbers. First quarter capital equipment investment was north of 20 percent, one of the best quarters ever, because all of America knows that the Golden Age is coming, and we got to start building stuff before everybody else gets in front of us.

And so, I think that you're going to look at the second half of the year, that's way, way north of three percent, probably north of four percent to give us one of the better years we've ever had, because even with the uncertainty that you talk about, that I've written widely about over the last 25 years, even with that uncertainty, we've got strong jobs numbers and strong investment. And so, once the uncertainty is lowered, then a liftoff from there is really going to be something to see.

BARTIROMO: That is -- that is very powerful, Kevin. Real quick before you go, I know you've got the trade minister from India in Washington today. What would be a victory there? What would you want to see from India?

HASSETT: Oh, I have to leave that to the trade negotiators, Maria. But, I'm sure that India has been really, really, I guess, open to making big progress, and they recognize that they've done a lot of stuff in the past that disadvantaged American workers. And so, I think that India, we're really hoping to get that to the finish line, in a way that's a great model for other Asian countries.

BARTIROMO: In fact, the President said, while he was on his Middle Eastern trip, that India said it would be poised to go to zero. So, we'll be watching --

HASSETT: Yeah.

BARTIROMO: -- the conversations coming out of Washington this week.

Kevin, it's great to see you. Thanks for taking on all the tough questions.

HASSETT: Good to see you, Maria.

BARTIROMO: Thank you, sir. Kevin Hassett at the White House.

END